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A Mind of a Neo-Con
With all this disagreement that has been going on, I guess I would be classified as a Neo-conservative. But that doesn't bother me, because I just think of myself as a conservative and the opinions of others don't affect me.
There is this ongoing disagreement about how neo-conservatives are taking over the party with their interventionism and world police foreign policy. First off, Bush was a bad president because he couldn't stop spending, but he did keep us safe after 9/11 which is his most important job. Now Bush got us into two wars. The one in Afghanistan and the war in Iraq. Afghanistan was to fight terrorism after 9/11. The war in Iraq was because of the belief that Saddam Hussein had WMD's, which we now know is not true.
I know going to war with Iraq was a mistake, but we can't travel to the past and fix it. The United States made a mistake, simple as that. But we do we do after we committed the mistake. Do we just pullout and hope for the best for the people of Iraq. Or do we stay and try to help reestablish order and peace to the country. I think we did the right choice in staying in Iraq. The surge was a success and the people of Iraq now have freedom. It's no longer safe haven for terrorists and we now have another ally in the Middle-East. Now think about what would have happened if we would have just pulled out.
Now I know it's pointless to say what if, but it makes you think what we did was right compared to the alternatives. If we didn't stay, Iraq would be in chaos still, Iran could have invaded the weak country and take over, terrorists could have taken over the country, or maybe the Iraqi people would have just lived in peace. All of those could have been possibilities, but I know none of them included freedom for the people of Iraq.
Now those "traditional conservatives" will say, "It's not our place to decide who gets freedom and who doesn't." Here is my opinion and that's all it is. We made a mistake by invading, but what do after is more important than trying to pass blame for whose fault it is for the mistake. By staying and restoring order in Iraq we also were able to give the Iraq people something they never had, FREEDOM. For every year that live free, it's going to be much harder for someone to take it away. We are Americans, we should be encouraging freedom whenever we have the chance to. Don't stray away and hide behind our borders hoping people will not bother us, because that happens only in fairy tales.
Onto Afghanistan. We've been there for 8 years with no victory insight. It's time for a strategy change. Maybe pullout and just do special ops missions and take out terrorist leaders, maybe a troop surge similar to Iraq, I don't know. But what I do know, we can't just pullout and do nothing. Being isolated doesn't work. They will continue to attack us, and to think they won't is naive.
I know the founding fathers didn't attend for America to be a superpower. They also didn't attend a single bomb that could destroy an entire city or communication across the world in seconds. Isolation might have worked back then, but it doesn't work now. As a superpower, we have to be aware of what is happening in North Korea, China, Iran, Venezuela, and other countries. That doesn't mean we have to invade for every threat otherwise we will always be in a war. I'm saying that our awareness and involvement has kept a lot of dictators in line and stopped them from committing horrible acts. These dictators fear us because they know if they do anything out of line, we will be there to stop them in their place.
So that is my opinion about why isolating ourselves is not the right move. You can continue to debate about whose a Neo-con or whose a true conservative, but you will not change my mind. I still haven't forgotten 9/11 and I was in fifth grade when it happened. I know we can't just sit by and do nothing.
"All that's necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
There is this ongoing disagreement about how neo-conservatives are taking over the party with their interventionism and world police foreign policy. First off, Bush was a bad president because he couldn't stop spending, but he did keep us safe after 9/11 which is his most important job. Now Bush got us into two wars. The one in Afghanistan and the war in Iraq. Afghanistan was to fight terrorism after 9/11. The war in Iraq was because of the belief that Saddam Hussein had WMD's, which we now know is not true.
I know going to war with Iraq was a mistake, but we can't travel to the past and fix it. The United States made a mistake, simple as that. But we do we do after we committed the mistake. Do we just pullout and hope for the best for the people of Iraq. Or do we stay and try to help reestablish order and peace to the country. I think we did the right choice in staying in Iraq. The surge was a success and the people of Iraq now have freedom. It's no longer safe haven for terrorists and we now have another ally in the Middle-East. Now think about what would have happened if we would have just pulled out.
Now I know it's pointless to say what if, but it makes you think what we did was right compared to the alternatives. If we didn't stay, Iraq would be in chaos still, Iran could have invaded the weak country and take over, terrorists could have taken over the country, or maybe the Iraqi people would have just lived in peace. All of those could have been possibilities, but I know none of them included freedom for the people of Iraq.
Now those "traditional conservatives" will say, "It's not our place to decide who gets freedom and who doesn't." Here is my opinion and that's all it is. We made a mistake by invading, but what do after is more important than trying to pass blame for whose fault it is for the mistake. By staying and restoring order in Iraq we also were able to give the Iraq people something they never had, FREEDOM. For every year that live free, it's going to be much harder for someone to take it away. We are Americans, we should be encouraging freedom whenever we have the chance to. Don't stray away and hide behind our borders hoping people will not bother us, because that happens only in fairy tales.
Onto Afghanistan. We've been there for 8 years with no victory insight. It's time for a strategy change. Maybe pullout and just do special ops missions and take out terrorist leaders, maybe a troop surge similar to Iraq, I don't know. But what I do know, we can't just pullout and do nothing. Being isolated doesn't work. They will continue to attack us, and to think they won't is naive.
I know the founding fathers didn't attend for America to be a superpower. They also didn't attend a single bomb that could destroy an entire city or communication across the world in seconds. Isolation might have worked back then, but it doesn't work now. As a superpower, we have to be aware of what is happening in North Korea, China, Iran, Venezuela, and other countries. That doesn't mean we have to invade for every threat otherwise we will always be in a war. I'm saying that our awareness and involvement has kept a lot of dictators in line and stopped them from committing horrible acts. These dictators fear us because they know if they do anything out of line, we will be there to stop them in their place.
So that is my opinion about why isolating ourselves is not the right move. You can continue to debate about whose a Neo-con or whose a true conservative, but you will not change my mind. I still haven't forgotten 9/11 and I was in fifth grade when it happened. I know we can't just sit by and do nothing.
"All that's necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Laura Eide on -
That is a must see documentary indeed LfP! Thanks, well done.
I would urge everyone to put aside the time to sit down and watch it, start to finish. The outcome of your time viewing it will be a profound and heightened awareness of WHY we fight and an inside look at our fighting business around the globe.
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Permalink Reply by KugleScrub20 on -
It worked in Vietnam? 3 million Vietnamese were killed right after we left.
So we are occupying their land. Iraq is part of the United States. Why don't we get any of that surplus that Iraq has? Why are they able to have elections? Our armies are there to rebuild and protect them. Iraq is not part of the imaginary American Empire. They are an ally. They have elections which the people choose their leaders. No longer they live in fear of their dictator. No longer do they have to live with Sharia Law.
This NEW WORLD OLDER, please someone describe it to me. If we are so evil in the eyes of this country how can we be part of this order. In the video of LatinsforPaul posted, they talked about how our image is damaged and how countries hate us. Well how do you expect us to be part of this World Order.
I came from public school, and I also took a government class. My teacher was more libertarian than conservative and we talked about the constitution and the Iraq war. I know there shouldn't be a war in Iraq since Congress didn't declare war, since they are the only ones who can declare war. But congress did give President Bush the power to act with our military to any threat. The threat at that time was Iraq because they were suspected of having WMD's. I fell for the false information just as many others did. Like I said previously, War in Iraq was a mistake. And we did bring disorder to the country. But with the surge we brought some stability back and were able to give the Iraq people freedom. And of course we are imperialist and imprisoning those people so it's just a false sense of freedom. (last sentence with sarcasm.)
But again to you BmoreBrawler, what would you have us do with the War against Terrorism?
Now LatinsforPaul, I watched some of the video. I skimmed through it and with more time I will try to watch it. It brings up good points from what I watched. I agree that Bush and Cheney did have a financial interest in Iraq which I wish someone would challenge them on it. But again they did keep us safe and prevented another terrorist attack for 8 years. I probably liked Bush/Cheney the same amount you did.
As for the comment about the surge. Of course there is going to be violence still in the country. But compare it to other months of the war, it has worked. To deny it, you have to be blind to the statistics. Casualties are way down. Iraq is well prepared to take over.
Again, I want to know from the both of you how you guys would fight against the war on terror? Just tell me what you would do and don't give me articles or videos. Just tell me in your own opinion please.
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Permalink Reply by Jaro on
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Geez, is this a liberal forum or is this a liberal forum? Your quick dismissal of the fact that after we left Vietnam, the communists there killed 3 million of their conservative fellow citizens, speaks very poorly about your, and most liberals' CHARACTER.
And your claim that we killed 1 million Iraqis, is a LIE! FYI, most of those were killed by Al Qaeda and other terrorists, or how you libs call them "freedom fighters" .
I think this pretty much tells us all we need to know about the MORALLY CORRUPT liberal mindset. All they can do is repeat their insane arguments over and over and hope that "A lie repeated often enough will be believed".
In Iraq, the US military defended freedom and democracy of Iraqi people, while Al Qaeda and muslim terrorists used bombs to kill 100's of thousands of civilians in order to TERRORIZE them into submission. Oh yeah, I see how the US soldiers are the evil ones, and the terrorists, the good guys, Right??? *sarcasm*
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What a bunch of balloney! We fought in Vietnam to stop the expansionist policy of Soviet Union, who was intent on spreading communist totalitarianism all over the world, just as today it's Islam that is intent on spreading Islam and subjugating free people everywhere to their Sharia law.
And the reason why Vietnam today is moving toward capitalism, is because there no longer is Soviet Union to support and encourage them to blow the brains of all freedom thinking people there ! Are you people ideologs or just dumb and ignorant of history?
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Permalink Reply by George Sutherland on -
LatinsforPaul please explain where Dr Paul got all of this information and also explain why all of the Russian & Chinese Military was in-Country please explain why some people say that we have great relations with Vietnam but in real life we have the same kind of relations as we do in China.It is kinda funny I spent 3 years in Vietnam as an Advisor and never saw or heard of any of these American interest that you talk about.
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Permalink Reply by George Sutherland on
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LatinsforPaul I did not have to open the link posted because I knew where your writing came from I feel kinda funny that you are giving and posting dates that I was part of .I was part of the Desoto Patrol even though my PTF (Nasty) was not one of the two US PTF's involved in the incident.I was part of Linebacker 1 and Rolling Thunder and many other Operations.You can go on the Internet and get many of these stories everyone is different.
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Permalink Reply by George Sutherland on
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LatinstforPaul nothing except PTF's 5 & 6 went into Haiphong and laid several rounds of 81mm fire intended to deceive North Vietnam the deception didn't work and the two American PTF's sank two of the five NVA boats action over the next morning the USS Maddox claimed that they were being attacked the rest is History.Our therory was the Bridge lookout saw the profile of the USS PTF's and identified them as NVA Boats but never fired.
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Permalink Reply by George Sutherland on
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BmoreBrawler just one comment if China becomes Capitalist it will be exactly like Russia's now Government.
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