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Is waterboarding torture?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by fletch on -
At one time, I lived with both my wife and oldest daughter when they were pregnant at the same time. I would have gladly taken waterboarding instead.
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Permalink Reply by elaine fox on -
No, I don't believe waterboarding is torture.
I'll tell you what's real torture...listening to the endless prattling and navelgazing among the effete "ruling class."
But seriously, real torture is what islamic extremists do to people with electric drills, pliers and wood chippers.
That's too politically incorrect to say so the cowardly left attack only safe targets...other Americans.
Elaine
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Permalink Reply by LeeHInAlexandria on -
Hell no. The people we are fighting against, if they captured you would not think twice about cutting off your head. Anyone remember what they did to the two Marines who were kidnapped in Iraq, totured, burned, then hung on a bridge (I think it was near Fallujah).
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Permalink Reply by debra lang on
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waterboarding not torture
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Permalink Reply by Thomas L. Massung Jr. on -
Waterboarding is not an interogation technique that does any physical harm.
The Arabs beheading people alive, slowly with a knife and taping it for the world to see is torture.
The Geneva Convention only serves those countries who abide by it. Let's think seeing nobody in Osama Bama's administration (includinng Osama Bama) have an IQ equal to a Tickle-Me-Elmo, Germans did not abide, Japanese did not abide, nor do the Arab's abide.
We should only abide by the Geneva Convention as long as our enemies do. Otherwise, all torture should be fair game if it will save one U.S. life.
Relasing the Gitmo Terrorists is as stupid as stupid can be just as Osama Bama kissing up to our enemies is. Maybe he will visit Iran and not come back (we could only be so lucky). Hopefully he takes Nancy with him.
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Permalink Reply by Tristan on
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Wow, and we're arresting priests because fondled a child, they arrest pastors who say that homosexuality is a sin...and waterboarding isn't torture? How far we American's have come in the face of adversity to be found that we are just as bad as those we supposedly oppose. We went in search of the monster to destroy it, but when we returned we found the monster, and it was us.
"Those who will give up their liberties, for a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin. So you guys want torture to keep "American's" safe...You've earned then neither liberty nor safety. And as Patrick Henry would say, "May the chains of slavery lay upon you lightly." Because you haven't learned anything. That giving up our liberties for safety has brought you to this place of dependence upon a government that doesn't have your best interests at heart.
They helped create these Osama Bin Laden's and the like and now they have come back to repay the pain we've brought upon their countries during the Cold War. I do not think we should stand idly by, but I will not endorse torture. We either fight them as men and women of Principle or we become slaves.
The military, CIA, NSA style America has brought us to this point and has only exacerbated the situtations for us and have not Protected us, but you would have them continue in making things worse instead of looking at the root of the problem.
I love America, and once it stood as a beacon for everyone in the world and not just our own self-serving means. But now we've become acceptant of things like a little bit of torture is ok. Remember, if you give the devil an inch he'll become your ruler.
I am a red-blooded American and I believe there is a better way. Hate, torture, military has not worked it has only created more problems. There are times when our actions must be harsh and concise and to the point. But then we must return to our former selves and glory and remember why we are American's. It's not to just give freedom to ourselves or rest upon our own liberties, but to help the world realize this as well. That they can be free from oppression, poverty, hunger etc...But it's going to take another way.
If we are a Christian nation, then we should act like it. "Do not give evil for evil." - Jesus Christ. All that does is propogate evil. But this path is much harder, but it's right.
I cry for my lost American brothers and sisters during 9-11. But we can't get blinded by hate and miss the real enemy and the root cause of the issue. Bush told us that they hate us for a our freedom...You sure about that? Maybe it's that we destroyed their way of life making war with Russia over oil in a foreign country? And they were just thought of as collateral damage?
Yes, you defeat a bully by knocking some sense into him. But what if the bully is apart of a gang and the person being beat us is also apart of the same gang? Who is the one you'll defend? The Lesser of two evils? We American's have been good at following that line for a while now and the lesser of two evils has become more and more evil each time. Wow, wake up people! Those 3,000 American souls died for a reason. There should be red flags going off here. Why would someone hate us so much? Because we've invaded their sovereignty. We've killed, maimed and destroyed their homes, children, and families in the name of oil and strategic positioning.
We must realize at some point that this talk of waterboarding being fine and dandy is just propogating the need for them to rebel against us. Once we realize that these supposed terrorists aren't the real enemy but the Tail wagging the Dog. America, has created it's own enemies.
Check this video out and 6:13 mins and tell me 9-11 wasn't understood and known before it happened. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFEQaZZcLH8&NR=1 And then tell me that we haven't created these situations to make sure legislature of slavery goes through. Patriot Act I & II does it make you feel safer?
Which liberties are you willing to give up for more safety? Which ones have you already given up? And do you feel safer now? I sure as hell don't! I want all of my liberties and I'll sort out my own enemies.
We must return to the Constitutional Republic for which our country used to stand. We're in Iraq right now giving them DEMOCRACY??? When did we become a Democracy to teach other nations how to be a Democracy? Are you kidding me? That's our good ol' Public Schools teaching us NOTHING of what we are as American's.
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Permalink Reply by Marianne Schell on
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I don't think it matters either way whether waterboarding is torture. It worked and that is what matters. The enemy inflicted a life time of torture on the families of the murdered victims before and after Sept. 11, 2001
As always we needed to find out what the prisoners knew before it happened once again and perhaps worse. We need to protect our borders whether from Canadian or Mexican entry. If the govt. cant' do this, then perhaps the individual states must protect their borders. We didn't start this war but by damn we need to finish it and eliminate the enemy with whatever means possible. Don't you think?
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Permalink Reply by Bill Poindexter on
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I think we need to waterboard Nancy and see if she can remember what the CIA told her correctly....lol
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Permalink Reply by Jim Robinson on -
While I do disagree with Tristan's assertion that waterboarding is physical torture (it is not, and there is no chance of accidental death using it as an interrogation technique), I share her disgust at the number of people that openly feel that real torture is morally justifiable for any reason. It is not.
Our Founding Forefathers, and the Framers of our Constitution, never justified using real physical torture for any reason. I have repeatedly and clearly stated in this forum that physical torture should NEVER be used for any reason - just because others would do it to us should not justify us doing it to them. Our country was founded on much higher principals and moral ground than this, and I am not ready to sacrifice our ideals for the sake of expediency in our so-called "war on terrorism." Real torture is a fine-line that we dare not cross, but waterboarding is not torture - it is really nothing more than an unpleasant form of interrogation that carries no threat of real harm or death. And that is the topic of this forum.
As a Constitutionalist, I am completely and wholly against real torture for any reason - but I do not believe that waterboarding is real torture. Although I do not know Earl B's position on using torture against our enemies, I suspect he does not condone it. Earl's question was, "Is waterboarding torture?" If it is, then we need to stop using it as an interrogation technique. But I have yet to see anyone here conclusively prove that waterboarding is real torture; it does no physical harm, there is no chance of real death or serious crippling injuries, and it has provided substantive intelligence information to prevent other terrorist attacks against our country.
Let's face it people, we are facing real enemies that will stop at nothing to attack us and destroy us for many different reasons. As a country, we do have the right of self defense to protect us from our enemies - but we do not have the right to police this world and consistently interfere with the internal sovereign matters of other countries that do not share our great hopes, goals, plans, visions, and values. Peace can only come through strength (thus a legitimate function of government to provide for our nation's security and defense with police measures), but it is not strength to force our ways and agendas on countries that do not share them or want them. Our Founding Forefathers never envisioned America being the policeman of the world. I will continue to echo Thomas Jefferson's words on this subject: "Peace, Commerce, and Honest Friendship with All Nations - Entangling Alliances with None."
As true Conservatives, we dare not sacrifice the principles and values that once made America the envy of the world. We can restore those lost values, but it will take great effort and sacrifice to return to them. Torture - No! Waterboarding - unfortunately Yes!
Tristan said:Wow, and we're arresting priests because fondled a child, they arrest pastors who say that homosexuality is a sin...and waterboarding isn't torture? How far we American's have come in the face of adversity to be found that we are just as bad as those we supposedly oppose. We went in search of the monster to destroy it, but when we returned we found the monster, and it was us.
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Permalink Reply by Lisa Chambers on -
Ryan Lyk said:I actually think it is torture. Im sure many of you hate this, but the definition of torture is aggravated pain to the body or mind, waterboarding cuases psychological problems. I'm not anti-torture, but I dont think its as useful as we make it out to be. In WWII America was known for not being force of torture, we had different ways of getting out information. Dont get me wrong, it can work, and should be kept legal, but traditonally conservatives havent supported torture. Bush strayed a little. Conservatives believe America should be superpower force in the world for good. So lets keep a good image, and stick to legal torture, and minimal torture.
If you believe it to be torture, then everything that happened in bootcamp, A school, and other training I have attended in my years in the military is also torture.
I think some people would not be able to handle a neti pot.
We talk so long and often about raising our standards, and I agree - WE MUST. In order to be better, we must be smarter, and that includes knowing when someone is serious about overthrowing our government and killing our citizens.
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Permalink Reply by John Gibson White on -
Anything is torture that torments a living thing but who the hell was it that said all is fair in love and war. Where do any of you glib stupid people that have done nothing for this country and live here feeding off the lives of those who made this country what it is to judge what is right and what is wrong for our protection. If any of you who have never fought a war or directly lost someone you love in the protection of this country. STFU It is the nature of a normal human to survive and doing what is necessary to do that includes torture then so be it. You weak immoral pukes who like your easy life had better shut the hell up and make your rules for those who don't protect your ass. Yes I said immoral because that’s what you are if you don't understand moral and mortality are very closely intertwined. If you don't like it shut your eyes a look away because if you don't the next thing you know your eyes will never open again. You will be dead because you were too stupid to extract information needed to protect our great society. NUF SAID go back to kissing Obamas butt and leave the real people who want to live in a peaceful country alone.
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Permalink Reply by James Andrews on
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Are they kidding with this? This is a mild technique used to extract information! Uncomfortable..yet productive!
In my opinion our CIA officials and military personnel should be afforded "no condition" freedom in regards to interrorgation techniques. "All is hell in love and war! WE ARE AT WAR! Our enemies have no conditional restraints, nor do they have any concern for the life of an infidel. As long as we continue to play by the bull@#$%! rules, we place ourselves in harms way. Let our CIA and military do what hey have been trained to do. Let our country be safe. If anyone has a guilty conscience, then let those that lost loved one's on 911, or in Iraq, do the interrorgations. I am sure that they will be concerned about an enemies comfort, and whether or not a particular technique might hurt a person that wants to kill Americans!
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