Comment

Comment by jim harris on August 28, 2009 at 6:03pm

R.Devon Calvert,you are so right! burger king gave away FREE hamburgers a few months ago they where out by 11:00am and had to give rain checks,Just shows what happens when everyone gets somthing for free, you get over run with people wanting there piece of the pie! people will flood every doctor to have the sniffles checked out for free! and seeing they want to regulate what a doctor will earn the doctor pool will start to fall fast! as would be doctors find other means of making a living that wont cost them the huge sums of money it takes to be a doctor ,or the time it takes to be a doctor and make that reduced income ! every one must have health care but the way is not the government way! God Bless

Comment by jim harris on August 28, 2009 at 5:51pm

Heather if you don't like our ins. co. then you must take a real look at just why they can do what they do or don't do! THE GOVERMENT IS THE REGULATING BODY! SO NOW YOU WANT THEM TO HAVE EVEN MORE CONTROL? you are blind to the facts of what the people you want to give full control have already done! look up what nixon carter clinton's deregulation has done when I was a kid my mom never heard we wont cover it ! or he is not on our list so you can't see that doctor

Comment by R. DEVAN CALVERT on August 28, 2009 at 3:16am

Oh Heather...as an addendum, let me say that I agree with Lee Pierson. The government doesn't have the Constitutional right to any of these actions in the first place.

God Bless,

Devan

Comment by R. DEVAN CALVERT on August 28, 2009 at 3:05am

Hello Heather,

No, unfortunately I can’t stop talking about “death panels.” Primarily because, regardless of false and euphemistic hyperbole of the Obama administration, and the left’s outright misrepresentation of the facts (a.k.a. lying) regarding limiting health care based only on monetary elements vs. age or chronic health condition(s), which fit their eugenic-focused mindset, a rose by any other name is still a rose. The same goes for fecal matter. No matter what you call it - it still stinks. And the “death panel” moniker is much more closely related to the function described than any other name I’ve seen. Hence it needs to stay in the discussions.

The statement you made about it being an “option” is just misdirection and disingenuous. I’ll trust you were just repeating what you’d heard as there are a number of page-referenced quotes, even on this site, which shows that statement to be patently false. Medicare/Medicaid patients are forcefully moved. When you change your plan you’re shuffled into the new “gov” option…like it or not. It may take a few years to get everyone sorted out, but the mechanism is in that plan to ensure that you are required to take the government option at some point.

As to proving my point about single-payer government-run health care the burden of proof need not lay at my doorstep – as those who wish to foist such an expensive and quality reducing system upon us are the ones who rightfully need to prove that the system will actually work - without undue burden to the public - to those of us who will be force-marched into the program. Although, in the spirit of fairness, I’ll provide you a few places to look, if you’re interested in discovering the facts. Try Great Britan, Canada, the Netherlands, or Denmark. Even a cursory glance at these systems with a bit of honest research will show you overburdened medical systems that don’t match our current one for availability, quality, rapidity of diagnosis, treatment prescriptions or follow-up. As additional incentive for your research I’d recommend you check out their tax rates in each country as well. You could also try closer to home with the disaster that’s the Michigan health-care system (and don’t forget to check out the tax rates there either.)

There is no bottomless pit of monetary resource to an individual or a government. An understanding of economics 101 will stand a person in good stead towards seeing what happens with our current economic situation and, if implemented, knowing this will be a huge boost in the downfall of the dollar and a sincere assist towards hyperinflation…but that’s another ballpark for the moment.

So, to encourage your private research in the quest for truth (because I’m willing to believe the best about you) let me give a simplified process of the excessive cost to all Americans for “free” medical care:
1. Government run health-care plan is implemented
2. Human nature is such that, if anything doesn’t cost us personally, we have an incentive to use it more so…
3. Cost over-runs are almost immediate. In order to pay for the huge outlay of cash two things become a requirement:
a. Increased taxes are levied on everyone (e.g. last I checked Denmark had a 90% tax rate for most folks who weren’t on the government dole and they have government assisted suicide for the poor folks who can’t get their care approved but who don’t want a lower quality of life)
b. Rationing of care becomes the order of the day, since it’s only reasonable to spend our money to get the most “bang-for-the-buck.” (After all, that’s a governments’ primary fiduciary responsibility isn’t it? – Oops! Death Panels again.) Those too young and too old folks who wouldn’t likely make it more than a few years…it’s not a good idea to spend the money for health care on them since a couple of dozen younger twenty-something people can be treated for the same money.
4. In the mean time, in order to pay those substantial increases in taxes, businesses and property owners need to increase rates to live. Housing, food, transportation, insurance…literally everything you can imagine takes a huge jump. Whether or not wages will keep pace with the rising costs is always interesting to watch. But, no problem, big brother government is right there with price controls…which then causes a reduction in services due to businesses closing faster than rats leaving a sinking ship with concomitant lost employment, lack of competition and more people signing up for welfare.
Well I could go on, but I won’t. The proof of such failure lies in several obvious places:
 Reason
 Logic
 History
 World Geography and…
 The stories of thousands…perhaps millions of people who wait from months to years to get the health care they need; even life-saving care, only to find out that they can’t have the medication or treatments they need because they’re too expensive.

Heather, although, I did attempt to add a bit of humor to the presentation (if I failed at that I apologize), I don’t mean to be flippant or patronizing in any way…and yet, the evidence for all of this is both clear and available to anyone who wants to spend a few hours doing research. I’m not accusing you of this but; I’m having a hard time matching your statements with an honest search for the truth. The type of statements you’ve made sound (again, I don’t accuse you of this at this point) an awful lot like the scripted, misrepresenting, euphemistic-speaking, spin-centered, talking heads of the Obama-cult crowd, who see themselves as benefiting from an increase in government control and power. I sincerely hope that’s not you.

God Bless,

Devan

Comment by Heather on August 27, 2009 at 8:38pm

Devan, please stop the "death panel" talk. There will never be "death panels!" Also, could you please prove your statement: "Every society which has tested government-run health, single-payor has experienced much greater cost to all individuals and a reduction of health services for everyone. It doesn't work." This is simply untrue.

I am baffled why there is such outrage amongst some of my fellow Christians over a government health insurance option. Option is the key word, if you don't like it keep your own insurance. I make a whole lot of money each year, and unlike Lee I have never been poor. But I certainly don't mind some of my hard earned tax dollars going to help those who are less fortunate than me get healthcare (in my opinion that's a much better use of my cash than all my money Mr. Bush spent on a war in Iraq). Republican or Democrat, Jesus wants us to all help and love one another.

Comment by LarryNC on August 27, 2009 at 8:32pm

Heather,

I'm going to ask you to tone down the sarcasm. May I remind you of the purpose of the group:
Helping prepare Conservative Christians with the resources to impact their local, state and federal governments to reclaim our traditional Judeo-Christian Heritage

While your thoughts are welcome, this will be a group that promotes civility and respect.

Thanks,
Larry

Comment by R. DEVAN CALVERT on August 27, 2009 at 2:36pm

Heather, your comments reflect a lack of understanding of the realities of human nature, societal realities, and historical clarity.

Funding for the death panels has already been established in the Stimulus Bill (see discussion article above). And, while your comment about insurance death panels is somewhat accurate there is a distinct difference between them and the government established death panels The insurance companies cannot deny care strictly on monetary considerations the way the government can. Also their decisions are subject to be influenced by public perception and notoriety, which a government panel would not be. Also, smaller institutions of insurance companies are easier to deal with than a governmental institution.

Every society which has tested government-run health, single-payor has experienced much greater cost to all individuals and a reduction of health services for everyone. It doesn't work.

If you were really interested in the objective facts, they are available, but a factual total response to your statements (while available) are beyond the scope of this comment. Also, from the quality of your comments it doesn’t seem that the facts interest you very much. I’ll also say I object to the sarcasm in your comments as well. The quality of your replies don't just deal with the facts. You've attacked Jim's intelligence and Lee's religion by your denigrating comments. Such a tone is designed to prevent intelligent discussion rather than promote it and is the typical approach of those who can't backup their statements with fact but, elicit emotional responses so that a person may be demonized rather than entering into honest dialogue. I personally would appreciate it if you would change your tone even if you don’t change your opinion.

I hold no animosity for you but I find your approach full of hubris. I hope you get all you need and desire, but you won’t find that reality in this presented health care bill.

God Bless,

Devan

Comment by Heather on August 27, 2009 at 1:56pm

Lee I'm sure Jesus is on your side, too. The last thing He would want is for those pesky poor to have have access to affordable healthcare.

Comment by Heather on August 27, 2009 at 10:20am

Oh please Jim, when you tallk about "death panels" you just drag down any semblance of intelligent debate. Currently, insurance executives make these decisions. Do you also call the president of United Healthcare the Grim Reaper?

Comment by jim harris on August 26, 2009 at 5:05pm

Heather, when ever you have a group of people that will decide what care you may have and may not have THAT IS A LIFE AND DEATH PANEL WHAT THEY SAY YOU GET OR DON'T MAY SAVE OR END YOUR LIFE! OPEN YOUR EYE'S

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